DP: Prior to attending university you had your 'rigid
heterosexuality' intact. Is that correct?
AM: I think that that's pretty
fair to say.
DP:
So you and I both believe that how people behave sexually, including
which sex they will engage with sexually, is largely determined by
society and not by nature.
AM: Yeah, I completely agree.
DP:
Gay rights activists say the opposite. They say that whether you act
homosexually or not is fixed; and I don't believe it's fixed
necessarily at all and neither do you.
AM: But I think
that [the activists'] argument has a political purpose, which is to
counter the argument that heterosexuality is fixed.
DP: I agree with you. But we both think that they're
not telling the truth for the sake of making a political argument.
Since
we both agree that largely whom we have sex with and sexual behavior
generally are culturally determined, the only question is: Would we
like culture to determine [these things] one way or the other? I think
'yes' and you think 'not'. I have a heterosexual preference because my
values tell me that male/female love is the ideal. You don't think it's
the ideal. Is that fair?
AM: I think that it's one of
many options.
DP: It's not necessarily a good thing to teach
heterosexual behavior as the ideal?
AM: Yeah.
DP:
You didn't know you were sexually attracted to women until you went to
university? You had lived 18 years and thought you were only sexually
attracted to males.
AM: That's true, but I also had
never had a boyfriend either. I didn't date --
DP:
Whether one has a boyfriend or girlfriend is very different from what
one wants to have and where one's sexual fantasies lie.
AM: Yeah, that's completely true.
DP:
All I'm saying about sexual choices is that society has a deep impact
on sexual choices including whether it's same sex or opposite sex. So
my whole position is: Thousands of years of Western civilization
preferring male-female bonding leading to marriage and family is a good
thing, and Anna feels that it's a bad thing. Is that totally fair? Or
am I putting words in your mouth?
AM: I don't think it's
necessarily preferable. I think that people should be able to make
their own choices.
DP: So one is as good as the other.
AM: Yeah.
DP: So you're saying that for thousands of years,
Western society has been wrong for preferring male-female marital
bonding.
AM: I only think it's wrong in
that it limits other possibilities, which are equally good.
DP:
So it is wrong to tell people, wrong to tell little girls, to suggest
in any way, subtly or non-subtly, that they should grow up and marry a
boy?
AM: Yeah, I don't think that you
should force anyone into --
DP: You said 'forced,' I just said 'suggest.'
AM: How would you just gently
tell someone?
DP: By saying, for example, "Well, are you going to
marry Jerry or Tony?" instead of, "Are you going to marry Jerry or
Barbara?"
AM: I think that the coercion is
on a sort of deeper level.
DP: So you feel it's [coercion] to suggest to a girl
only male options for marriage?
AM: Right.
DP: Have you acted upon your new revelation of not
being a rigid heterosexual?
AM: What do you mean 'acted on'?
DP: Well, had sexual contact with females.
AM: I guess I have, yeah.
DP: Have you had with a male?
AM: I had. I had a boyfriend for
a year.
DP: Is there any difference or are they both equally
meaningful to you?
AM: Well, there is definitely a
difference, but they are also both meaningful.
DP: At this point, do you hope to marry one day?
AM: I haven't really decided on
that.
DP: You don't even have that hope? You haven't decided
on the hope? I asked if you hoped, not if you decided.
AM: Do I hope to marry? I don't
know if I'm going to marry or not.
DP: I didn't ask if you knew; I was asking if you're
hoping.
AM: I'm not sure what the
difference is.
DP: I hope to win the lottery, but I don't expect to.
There is a very big difference. So I'm asking if you hoped to.
AM:
Well, hope would imply that that would be ideal. But I'm not going to
say that getting married would be ideal. But I'm also not against
marriage; I mean you get insurance benefits by getting married so I can
definitely see a case where I would get married.
DP: For insurance benefits?
AM: Yeah.
DP: That's why you would marry?
AM: And tax benefits as well.
It's very convenient.
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